We were pleased to welcome Rebecca Li, PhD back to the Buddhist Sangha of Bucks County on Monday, May 4th for an evening of meditation, Dharma teaching, and Q&A discussion.
Rebecca’s talk explored how Chan practice—and especially the method of silent illumination—can help us meet uncertainty with clarity, compassion, and resilience. Her teaching draws on themes from her book Allow Joy into Our Hearts: Chan Practice in Uncertain Times, offering practical guidance for unlearning the habits that keep us caught in suffering.
We are fortunate to have the evening recorded and transcribed for you.
In the first part of her talk, Rebecca Li explains that Chan practice is the art of realizing that uncertainty is the fundamental nature of reality. She emphasizes that suffering arises from “erroneous views”—the habit of clinging to a fixed sense of self or the illusion that we can predict and control the future. By cultivating “Right View,” practitioners recognize that every moment is a brand-new convergence of interdependent causes and conditions, much like bubbles forming and dissolving in a flowing stream. Dr. Li encourages adopting a “non-knowing mind,” which involves letting go of preconceived judgments and labels to experience the world as it actually is. This clarity allows one to move through tumultuous times without being paralyzed by fear, enabling wiser, more compassionate actions that acknowledge our profound interconnectedness with all things.
In the second part of her talk, Rebecca Li explores the essential Chan practice of total clear awareness, an approach to mindfulness that extends beyond stationary meditation into every movement of daily life. Rather than narrowing one’s focus to block out distractions, she invites us to practice a formless, open awareness that allows practitioners to coexist with both physical discomfort and external uncertainty by experiencing the present moment exactly as it is. She illustrates that by opening our awareness during times of overwhelm, we can prevent suffering from becoming our entire world, thereby transforming a “narrowed” pain into a manageable part of a larger reality. Ultimately, the text teaches that cultivating this moment-to-moment clarity serves as a foundation for wise action and compassion, allowing individuals to engage in the world without being consumed by hatred or distress.
Transcripts below…
This and all our programs are free and open to the public. Donations (dāna) are appreciated to support our visiting teachers program.
About Rebecca Li, PhD
Rebecca Li is a respected Chan Buddhist teacher in the lineage of Master Sheng Yen and the founder of the Chan Dharma Community. She began practicing in 1995 and took refuge with Master Sheng Yen that same year. By 1999 she was serving as his translator and soon entered formal teacher training, leading Dharma classes by 2002.
Her training also includes extensive study with Drs. John Crook and Simon Child, both Dharma heirs of Master Sheng Yen. Following the passing of Master Sheng Yen (2009) and John Crook (2011), she continued her training with Simon Child, her current teacher. Rebecca has co-led intensive Chan retreats and collaborated with teachers of the Western Chan Fellowship in the U.K. Learn more about Rebecca Li at: rebeccali.org
Transcription of Guided Sitting Meditation by Rebecca Li:
Introduction and Posture
Good evening, everyone. So lovely to see all of you here. And so, thank you, Dave, for having me here. What we will do is we will start off with a session of guided sitting meditation to settle our mind. I’d like to invite you to follow along, whether or not this is the method that you use in your own sitting meditation practice.
I’d also like to invite you to pay attention to the instructions, because I will refer to them during the talk. And there’s a test at the end—I’m a professor! [Laughter]. No, so it may help you understand what I will be talking about.
I’d like to invite you to attend to the fine points of your posture. If you have anything that’s generating a lot of sensory stimulation on your face—glasses, ponytail, watch—or something tight around your waistline, you can loosen a button; you will find that making a huge difference in your ability to relax into each emerging present moment.
Check to see if you are seated in a way that allows your lower back to fall into its natural curvature, allowing the skeletal structure to do the work of holding up the body and minimizing the use of muscles. The body can relax, and when the body relaxes, the mind can relax as well.
Total Body Relaxation Scan
I’ll take you through a whole-body relaxation. We begin:
- The Head: Feel the relaxation of the top of our head. Directly experience the subtle sensations of the scalp relaxing as we allow the tension to melt away. Feel the relaxation spread to the forehead. Check to see if we hold tension in the area between our eyebrows by habit, perhaps from worrying, and allow the tension to melt away.
- The Eyes: Feel the relaxation spread to the eyeballs and eye muscles, where we often hold a lot of tension from our daily life by habit—from all the comparing, analyzing, judging, and planning. Right here, right now, we can take a break from that and allow the tension to melt away.
- The Face and Jaw: Feel the relaxation spread to the facial muscles. Check to see if we hold tension in some part of our face by habit—maybe in the jaw or near our ears—and allow the tension to melt away.
- Neck and Shoulders: Feel the relaxation spread to the entire head and down to the neck and shoulder muscles. Directly experience the subtle sensations of these muscles softening like melting butter as we allow the tension to melt away.
- Arms and Hands: Feel the relaxation spread down the arms, to the forearms, and all the way down to the fingertips.
- The Chest: Feel the relaxation spread to the chest area. Check to see if we hold tension in this area by habit—perhaps from anxiety, sadness, grief, or fear. Right here, right now, we can give them a rest and allow the tension to melt away.
- The Torso and Abdomen: Feel the relaxation spread down the torso, all the way down to the lower abdomen, where we often hold a lot of tension by habit. Trust that the skeletal structure can hold up the body and these muscles do not need to work so hard. We can give them a vacation too.
- The Back: Feel the relaxation spread to the upper back. Directly experience the subtle sensations of these muscles softening like melting butter. Feel the relaxation spread down the back to the lower back and all the way down to the buttocks, where we feel the sensations of the body’s weight on our seat.
- The Legs: Feel the relaxation spread to the thigh muscles and down the legs and all the way down to the toes.
Clear Awareness and Breath
Feel the relaxation of the entire body sitting right here, right now, moment after moment, with this wakeful, clear mind. As we do so, we may notice the subtle changing sensations of the body breathing.
As the body breathes, with expansion and contraction of the ribcage, with the movement of the diaphragm, the whole body moves a little bit. That is the subtle movement that I am talking about. Rest your attention on the subtle changing sensations of the body breathing gently, to gently anchor the mind to each emerging present moment.
Allow the body to breathe on its own. The body knows how to breathe; it’s been doing so since the moment we were born. Notice the urge to take over just because breathing is in your awareness. When you notice the urge, just allow it to melt away. Maintain this gentle contact with the subtle changing sensations of the body breathing, moment after moment.
Working with Distractions
It doesn’t matter whether the breath is long or short, shallow or deep. Just stay. Stay. Stay with the subtle changing sensations.
From time to time, you may notice the mind drifting off, traveling somewhere far, far away, losing contact with the direct experience of the subtle changing sensations of the body breathing. When that happens, not a problem. Use that as an opportunity to practice remembering to come back. Practice working with ourselves gently, kindly, to find our way back.
If you find it helpful, you can identify one point in the body along the central—maybe where your palms touch each other, or where your buttocks make contact with your seat—towards the lower half of your body. Choose that one point for you to practice returning to whenever you find that your mind drifts off. Use that as a portal to reconnect with the subtle changing sensations of the body breathing, moment after moment. It doesn’t matter how often or how long the mind drifts off; as long as you find your way back, you are practicing well.
Allowing Thoughts to Pass
From time to time, you may notice thoughts and feelings of various forms—maybe memory, fragments of conversation, or some scattered thoughts coming by to visit. When they do, allow them through. They are already part of the present moment, no different from the sound of the crows or cars passing by.
Blocking them out or chasing them away only agitates and tenses up the mind. Allow them through. Allow them to be felt and seen and heard as they are, moment after moment, directly experienced. There’s no need to try to explain or analyze or make sense of them. Just directly experience them. When they’re ready to move on, allow them to move on, even though it may seem like it’s in the middle of a story.
Moment after moment, maintain this total clear awareness of the body-mind sitting in this space.
Transition to Motion
Maintain this clear awareness as we transition from stillness to motion. As we move our fingers one by one, move our palms, and rotate our body from small circles into bigger and bigger circles in one direction.
Stay with the changing sensations as the body moves, moment after moment. Notice the urge to allow the mind to scatter just because the formal sitting meditation period has ended. Change direction. The practice continues. Why would we want to stop being clearly aware? It’s just changing form.
If we take good care of this transition, we can take the clarity and stability cultivated in sitting meditation into our life lived in motion. Please feel free to stretch out your legs if you are sitting on the floor.
Below is the summary of the first part of the talk “Chan Practice in Uncertain Times“
Introduction
So last evening, when I was home working on this talk, my husband—some of you have met David Slaymaker—he asked me, “So what was the topic that they gave you this time?” Dave gave me this topic… gave me a topic before. And I said, “Oh, the topic is Chan Practice in Uncertain Times,” which is the subheading/subtitle of my book.
And he said, “That’s a big topic.” I said, “No kidding!” I put together a talk, and then I decided that I don’t like it. And what I’m going to be sharing is actually the third version.
And why is it a big topic? Because the topic “Chan Practice in Uncertain Times”—you’re asking me to talk about whole Chan practice and uncertain time. Well, uncertainty is the true nature of reality, and Chan practice is about the practice of realizing the true nature of reality. We are talking about the entire body of Buddhadharma; how are we going to fit that all in one talk?
So, Dave mentioned this book, my first book, Allow Joy Into Our Hearts: Chan Practice in Uncertain Times. I read it again, and I said, “It’s actually pretty good!” I couldn’t believe it. And so, maybe you can check it out. So I thought maybe I don’t really need to talk about it, just let you go buy this book and read it, and you’ll figure out how to engage in Chan practice in uncertain times—ten short chapters.
But I thought maybe I would just give it a go even though it’s a big topic, and I’m going to try to talk about Chan practice and how to use Chan practice to be in uncertain times. I think that’s what you meant, Dave, like a tumultuous time—what do we do? How do we make use of Chan practice?
The Two Main Components of Chan Practice
So, I thought I would talk about the two main components of Chan practice:
First is the practice of remembering right view. Second is the practice of cultivating moment-to-moment clear awareness. That’s why I asked you to pay attention to my instructions in this guided meditation.
1. The Practice of Remembering Right View
So, the first component—very, very important—Right View. Many of you who have studied the Eightfold Path might recognize it’s the very first of the Eightfold Path, and that’s the most important of the Eightfold Path. And the practice of remembering right view also involves the practice of recognizing when we fall into erroneous view. Don’t worry, that happens a lot! A lot of opportunity to practice.
So, what’s Right View? Right view here points to understanding the true nature of existence. What’s the true nature of existence? That every moment is the coming together of constantly changing causes and conditions. There’s no one place that “makes” this happen; everything is the coming together of causes and conditions.
For example, all our sensory organs—there’s no inherently existing entity anywhere to be found. The sensory organs are the coming together of causes and conditions, like your blood vessels sending nutrients to the organ, the lungs functioning to breathe air. I recently read a book about why we die, and it talks about how the whole body works and all that kind of good things.
So, it really gives you a good idea of how the body is a very dynamic system, but there’s no one thing that “is” this body, or mind, or environment. Everything is constantly changing, and thus every moment is brand new.
There is this moment. We have never, ever been in this unique combination of the body and mind and what’s going on around us—including the birds—and it never will again. Maybe there’s another moment that seems similar, but not the same one. Every moment is brand new; the air in our lungs is different.
Sunyata and Emptiness
And this is a way to talk about the teaching of Sunyata, often translated as emptiness. Emptiness does not mean things are not existing; it means everything exists—we’re all here—just that it doesn’t exist the way we assume it to. Everything exists temporarily. Every moment coming together, this exists; and next moment, brand new moment—moment after moment. And thus, impermanence.
Non-Self and Interdependence
Often times people will use the imagery of existence like a river. You may have heard the saying that you can never stand in the same river twice. That’s very Buddhist. We try though; we use our phone to take a picture of the river—”that’s the river”—and it’s gone. It’s gone.
And so it’s pointing to the right view of non-self. That there is self—you’re here, you’re sitting on your seat—it’s just that there’s no independent, inherently existing self in anything, including what we consider ourselves.
Yes, I’m here, but like, well, where’s my self? The body is constantly changing. You may have heard that all the cells get changed in seven years, except apparently a few places from this “Why We Die” book. And of course, if you pay attention to what goes on in your mind, it’s probably quite different from the previous moment or from when you first sat down for meditation half an hour ago.
So where’s the self? There’s no inherently, independently existing me. Yet, every moment we’re here. And same for everything else: what we call our family, our job, our world, our country. Where is it? Where’s the fixed, independently existing entity? These names we give to things are like the river—every moment is a new river. That’s what non-self means.
Interconnectedness
And it is pointing to the fact that everything is interdependent. Because why is it there’s no inherently, independently existing self? Because everything is constantly touching each other. Some of you may have heard the analogy of the Indra’s Net. One thing—some people call it the butterfly effect—one thing touches everything.
You give rise to a thought; this thought may give rise to action. Your action touches another person; you smile, the other person’s heart is touched and they’re happy, and then it gives rise to all these thoughts, and we change the whole universe.
Co-Creation and Cause & Effect
This also then points to the fact that every moment is co-created by everyone. This is not how we usually think about things. We say “I did this,” “they did this.” No, we all do this; we co-create each other.
If you pay attention, you may notice when you’re with someone you feel different. Yes, you make that person feel different too. We co-create each other and we co-create with what we do, what we say, powered by what we think, what we feel.
And what we co-created in past moments conditions this moment: the law of cause and effect. So yes, every moment is brand new; every moment is the coming together of constantly changing causes and conditions, but it’s not random. You may feel like, “What happened? Why is it like this?” Well, if we really pay attention, what we all co-created together in the past helped condition or contribute to the present moment.
An Example: Consumption and Climate
Think about it; there’s endless ways to come up with examples. Many of us are old enough to remember a number of decades ago. We started living in a world where we thought it’s a good idea to just buy a lot of stuff and have a lot of stuff, and they got cheaper because of globalization.
So we happily participated—buying gifts for our loved ones—not with bad intention, but we all co-created that. But that has consequences: many different consequences. One of them is environmental degradation. Many countries cut down a lot of trees to make things that people buy. And these changes in environment, of course, some of which is experienced nowadays—in the last few years, we have every year breaking records in highest temperature, extreme weather, super long cold winter.
People can see the effect. So this is just one small example of understanding how we are all part of this interrelated net, co-creating our world. And we together co-create the condition; we co-created the condition in the past that conditions this present moment. And what we do this moment will continue to condition the future moment. So what is it that we want to co-create together for the future moment?
The Analogy of the Water Bubbles
I hope this gives you some sense of what Right View is. As you can see, all these components of a Right View are not how we usually think and view about the world and ourselves. That’s why the practice is about cultivating a remembering of right view, familiarizing with right view by actually paying attention to every moment of our existence instead of sticking to our pre-existing notions.
Think of us all as these water droplets—like all droplets of water in a big body like a stream together. We’re all interconnected; we’re not separate, which is our true nature.
When I go hiking, I look at water floating by. If you do that, you notice sometimes you see bubbles—like the water kind of traps some air and makes a bubble, or a cluster of bubbles. Some bubbles are bigger, some smaller, and they just kind of float on top of the water and flow along. They are not separated from the stream; they just go along the stream.
We can think of these bubbles as the coming together of causes and conditions manifesting as these bubbles. These bubbles can be our life—like my life as a professor living in New Jersey with my husband—we think “that’s my life!” but it’s just causes and conditions coming together.
And of course, our world, our job, our family, our country—that’s then another way like drops of water are manifesting these bubbles flowing along in this big body of water. And sometimes they just flow along calmly. Then you notice these bubbles will sometimes disappear and show up again—like our ever-changing life.
Tumultuous Times
Yet sometimes, because of many reasons—maybe there’s a giant boulder, maybe there’s other streams coming—several streams of water come together and form turbulent water, tumultuous times. It has to do with the convergence of multiple changes.
Often times we go through life and things come along and change here and there. Then sometimes we live through periods like everything is changing! Does it feel like now? Everything is changing: geopolitics, international order, national politics, technology, AI—which promises to change everything.
It promises to get rid of a lot of jobs; it promises to change every economic sector. So if we feel like we’re living in tumultuous times, maybe we’re like a bunch of water droplets coming through this very tumultuous part of the stream.
We’re still just water—some of us big bubbles, some small—moving along with this flow, sometimes changing shape, sometimes merging, popping. Not separate from the stream—that is the true nature of existence.
Erroneous View and Suffering
Can you imagine the water bubble saying, “Whoa, this is really crazy! I hate this water! What is going on? Why is it throwing me around? I hate it! Stop it!”
Water bubble complaining like that? We do. We say, “This is not supposed to be happening! I like that nice humming-along one. I don’t like this tumultuous water!”
Water just stays. It doesn’t feel that this rapid movement of the water is attacking me because you’re part of the water; nothing is attacking me because I’m still part of the whole.
I like to connect with this water bubble from time to time when I find myself forgetting right view. And I share this with you—is this helpful, this imagery? “Am I the complaining water bubble?”
The Habit of “Already Knowing”
Our usual tendency is to judge if it’s good, bad, right, or wrong. No, just allow yourself to pay attention. Yes, there have been changes. Maybe because who you’ve been talking to, what you’ve been reading—interconnectedness—and your view influence other people’s views. We co-create each other.
We may think, “I’m this bubble, me! I’m supposed to be this same bubble floating forever down the river, never ever changing.” Imagine the water bubble thinking that: “I have to hold on to this air in my bubble!” That’s exactly what we do.
Causes and conditions come together so that they manifest in the kind of life we have—our influence, our status, being considered important at work, in our family, in our profession. And then causes and conditions change, and your profession is not so important now. “No! I need the same bubble!” That bubble changed shape, or merged with another bubble, or dissolved back into the stream. You never separated from the water.
Recognizing Erroneous View
The other part of this practice of remembering right view is to recognize erroneous view. This will take forever to talk about because our erroneous view is endless. But this is pointing to the fact that our default is to forget right view even though you say, “Yeah, impermanence, I know.”
Those of you who have studied the 12 links of conditioned co-arising—the 12 Nidanas—may know that the very first link is ignorance. Ignorance is the English word used to translate this concept of Avidya, which in Chinese, the two characters mean literally “no clarity.” No clarity of the true nature of existence—forgetting right view.
So, every moment we forget right view, we fall into erroneous view, and Dukkha (suffering) arises.
I find it very amusing. Usually people talk like they know what’s going to happen. Do you notice that? Analysis of this new technology like AI: “Oh well, it’s going to be like when we had the internet; this is how it’s going to happen, same old thing, I already know.” Interesting—forgetting that every moment is brand new.
We want to believe we can already know the future when it is impossible. Or the war going on over there in the Middle East—you see analysis of, “Oh yeah, it’s like that other war in the past, and this is what’s going to happen.” Different war, but somehow we think it’s going to be the same because we want to believe that we can already know.
Non-Knowing Mind
When we forget right view, we believe that we know what will happen. Especially if you have certain leanings, you may think that, “Oh, it’s going to be a disaster.” You may know people who think that AI is a total disaster—”I already know!” I don’t know, do you? We have no idea.
You may not like what’s happening, but we don’t know what’s going to happen. Or some people think technology is great—we’re going to cure cancer, live forever, have robots doing everything for us. “I already know what’s going to happen.” When it’s impossible. We simply don’t know.
Acting with Wisdom
Then what do we do with Chan practice? When we remember right view, then we will recognize these ways of thinking as examples of erroneous view. “I already know what’s going to happen.” You notice that? Allow it to melt away.
And just come back and stay with each moment as it is right now in a non-knowing mind, yet staying directly experiencing the constantly changing causes and conditions. You stay informed about what is actually going on, not what you think is going to happen.
And that allows us to have this clarity of knowing what needs to be done rather than reacting out of vexation. If you think it’s going to be a disaster, you may be reacting out of fear or terror, and you may not make very wise choices. Similarly, if you think you already know it’s going to be amazing, you may make similarly unwise decisions.
Rather than seeing that, “Yeah, it’s this. This is what’s going on.” And you work with your causes and conditions to make the decisions you need in your life. That way we can live in accordance with wisdom and less prone to cause harm.
Conclusion
So, I think we are way overdue for your break, and I’d like to invite you to practice remembering right view while you make your way to your water/bathroom break. And we’ll come back to talk a little bit about Chan practice of maintaining total clear awareness.
The Practice of Total Clear Awareness – Part 2 of the talk
Rebecca Li transitioned from the concept of “Right View” to its practical application through Total Clear Awareness. She argues that meditation is not a specialized activity restricted to a cushion, but a “portable,” formless practice.
- Moving Meditation and the Transition: She emphasizes that the transition from sitting to motion is the most critical moment of practice. The form changes, but the principle remains: staying with the changing sensations of the body moving. Whether walking to the restroom, doing dishes, or driving, every movement is an opportunity for practice.
- The “Feet on the Floor” Portal: When the mind drifts into “la-la land”—her term for habitual distraction—she suggests a specific physical anchor: the sensations of the bottom of the feet on the floor. This acts as a portal to reconnect with the direct experience of the body-mind in space, preventing the practitioner from being lost in thought.
- Awareness vs. Focus: She explicitly avoids the word “focus.” In her view, “focus” often leads to a narrowed attention that blocks out the world (the “meditation bubble”). True Chan practice, or Silent Illumination, is a wide-angle awareness. One is aware of internal thoughts and feelings while simultaneously being aware of external sounds, like a car passing by, without being agitated by them.
Disrupting the Habit of Reification
A key nuance Li explores is how we “reify” or solidify our experiences, which leads to boredom or suffering.
- The “Same Old Breath” Trap: She notes that practitioners often get bored because they believe they are experiencing the “same old breath” over and over. This is a failure of Right View. By remembering that every moment is brand new and conditioned by different causes, one realizes that no two breaths are identical.
- “Stay with This Just as This”: Citing Master Hongzhi Zhengjue, she defines the practice as staying with whatever arises—whether it is a “busy mind” after a long day or low energy near bedtime. Nothing is “wrong” with the mind; these states are simply the present moment’s coming together of causes and conditions.
The Mechanics of Overwhelming Distress
Li uses the knee pain analogy to explain how we handle both physical pain and global distress.
- The Narrowing Habit: When in pain, our instinctual reactivity is to narrow our awareness onto the spot that hurts, hoping to “do battle” with it. This effectively turns the pain into our entire universe, making it feel much more overwhelming than it actually is.
- Opening Awareness: The Chan solution is to deliberately open the awareness—first to the whole body (recognizing where it doesn’t hurt) and then to the entire room. This places the pain in a larger context, making it a manageable part of the field of awareness rather than the whole of it.
Engagement and Not-Denial
Li clarifies that opening one’s heart to joy is not a form of denial or a way to ignore the world’s problems.
- Coexistence, Not Exclusion: She provides specific examples of distressing events: gas prices doubling, food insecurity, and geopolitical conflict. She insists that we do not pretend these aren’t happening. Instead, we allow the beauty of the world—new leaves on a tree, bird songs, the miracle of being alive—to enter our hearts alongside the distress.
- The Activism Nuance: Speaking as a sociologist, she critiques the common activist strategy of creating a “common enemy” to mobilize people. She warns that cultivating hatred is like “fertilizing weeds in your garden.” That hatred cannot be contained; it inevitably spills over into our relationships with family and colleagues. Instead, she advocates for “angry determination”—a deep commitment to justice that is not fueled by the poison of personal animosity.
Right Action and the Present Self
Finally, Li explains that Total Clear Awareness leads to Right Action, which is the ability to respond skillfully to reality.
Suffering as a Global Harm: She concludes with a provocative point: the most helpful thing one can do for the world is to reduce their own suffering. An agitated, suffering mind is much more prone to acting in ways that cause harm to others. By allowing joy into the heart, we act with more clarity and wisdom, ultimately making a better contribution to the “causes and conditions” of the world.
Discerning Discomfort vs. Injury: Using the knee again, she explains that clear awareness allows us to see if a sensation is mere discomfort we can coexist with or a serious injury requiring adjustment.
Compassion and Autonomy: She challenges the ego-driven belief that a “good practitioner” must suffer through pain. Wisdom means making adjustments and “sitting with the body I have now,” rather than the body one wishes they had or the body they had twenty years ago.
